Didn't We Learn Anything From Agnew/Nixon?

Dennis Kucinich's heart is definitely in the right place. There is no question that Cheney has got enough 'high crimes and misdemeanors' hanging over him to warrant an impeachment trial. But unless this is merely campaign year attention grabber, Kucinich has got his tactics screwed up. He needs to take a lesson from history--specifically Spiro Agnew's resignation after being indicted for bribery and corruption--and back off until he's willing to bring articles of impeachment against both Bush and Cheney simultaneously.

Sure...it's probably true that the articles will go nowhere. Nancy Pelosi has already taken the possibility of impeaching Bush off the table and may consider this a monumental distraction, but let's consider what might happen if articles were forwarded to the Senate. Taking Spiro Agnew's situation as a guide, Cheney would probably be forced to resign during preparations for a Senate trial. Discovery alone would probably reveal enough to do Cheney in, but...once Cheney is gone, Bush is in the clear once and for all.

Why? Because Kucinich and Democrats will have squandered their one shot at the President. The so-called "crimes" of a Cheney trial are the same, or very closely related, to the "crimes" that would come up in a Bush impeachment trial, but having tried and failed with the Veep, neither Congress nor the American people are going to have the spine to go through it a second time. Moreover, if Cheney goes, then Bush gets to appoint a replacement before being impeached himself! Thus, there is no chance of having Speaker Pelosi assume the presidency. And finally, you have to wonder who Bush might appoint to replace Cheney? Perhaps CIA Director Hayden--a man that is is as close to the 'Head of Secret Police' as we have. Or Secretary of State Rice? In fact, many unattractive alternatives come to mind.

The idea is good. The timing is miserable.

(Thanks to Sumo for the inspiration.)


Why do I keep thinking that these guys aren't going to leave office any time in the near future? By the time they're gone, there won't be enough left of our country to recognize it. I can't believe I was willing to give my life so that people who don't have a clue, can squander it needlessly.

And they wonder why people don't vote.
I don't care in what order or in what way they get these criminals out of office - just get them out. Even if we have to pick away at Gonzales, Rove, et al, chisel them away.
Yes the whole lot of them needs to be thrown out, whatever it takes, as they all are dangerous to the future of this country and caused enough detrimental effects.
Deb... I think that our current situation must be particularly galling to a veteran such as yourself.

Lew, Peacechick... I want them gone too, but given a choice wouldn't you rather see both of them impeached rather than just Cheney?

Oh...and look everyone...our Faux News troll is back.
Well Frog, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

The talking point from coast to coast seems to be that impeachment would be a waste of time, that by the time it was through Bush would be out of office. The other talking point is that there just isn't the votes in the Senate.

Ofcourse I disagree with this bullshit. I think we need to impeach Bush&Cheney for the simple reason to send a message to future Presidents that we will not tolerate our Constitution being violated.

I think Kucinich going after Cheney first was his way of doding the first anti-impeachment talking point, that if Bush is impeached, Cheney becomes president, which would be worse.

But you are right. I have heard already that if Cheney is impeached and/or steps down, that Bush is looking to appoint Jeb as VP.

regardless of what our politicians think, I believe impeachment of both Bush&Cheney is a necessity.

I don't know why so many democratic politicians have sucommbed to right wing talking points so fast, but they have.
The problem as I see it is we on the left and progressives don't have the same type of people as the Reich Wing Fascist Nazi's have.

In other words WE DON'T HAVE NO ERIC RUDOLPHS!!!!!!!!

But than were not like them either, we want to see them tried for their crimes either here or in the Hague under War Crimes Charges.

Maybe we'll be lucky one day and the Lord will answer our prayers. We can pray can't we? Or is that against the Law now?

God Bless.
Aww, come on...Spiro is the man!
Well, aside from the fact that impeachment is never ever gonna happen in a hundred million billion years, if it did happen, any new Vice President would have to be confirmed by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress. Dubya wouldn't get to just pick. Unless, ya know, it turns out he added a signing statement to the 25th Amendment.
Seems to me that Congress has been unable to stop Bush from doing what he wants.

We are no longer governed by our Constitution. Instead we are at the whim of the mad man Bush.
Nothing left to do but limp along until the bitter end?
It's a step in the right direction and perhaps it could at least start the discussion. Wrong guy to start it howvever.
If Kucinich makes a statement that most of America agrees with and the "Liberal Media" REFUSES to cover it, did it reall ever happen at all?
As a N.E. Ohio native, I'm very proud of uber-liberal Kucinich... but sadly I fear his sentiment is all for nothing, too. I wish it weren't so, but the Dems seem to be scared to death of impeachment... despite the fact that if any prez and vice-prez deserved it, THIS criminal administration would win hands down!
Anon - it's still OK to pray - but you must do so to the Pretender to the Presidency's "God" or you might could be in trouble soon!

After all, if you're pagan (for instance), you're not allowed to have your religious symbol on your soldier's grave...
You know, very simply, it is not going to happen. The Democrats are more complicit that we even know, but some of us suspect.
Polishifter... Impeachment would be a waste of time, no question. Pelosi is never going to let it get very far, and even if it did make it to the Senate, they wouldn't ultimately vote to impeach. But to your second point... Jeb! Gott im Himmel!

AnonP... I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens after Bush leaves office. Can you say extradition?
Comandante... No slam to the great Mr. Agnew intended. (OK, maybe just a little slam.)

LC... Don't you think that the Senate would just roll over for whomever Bush picked?

Nvisiblewmn... In the end, that's probably exactly what will have to happen.

UndeniableL... In a word, "NO!" That's why I'm wondering is this is all just a ploy for Kucinich. I mean is he out to become the Harold Stassan of the 00's?
Tina... See my comment above to Undeniable Liberal, and...WELCOME BACK! :-)

Sewmouse... Is that true? No pagan symbols on the graves? That sucks! What if it were an agnostic? Perhaps just a question mark?

Praguetwin... Oh I think that most of us know. We're just hopeful that they'll collectively grow a pair.
Hey you guys, from Australia it looks like you've got yourselves into a real mess. I'm sure glad we don't have a republic (although it is discussed from time to time)!

Giving a President so much power seems to void the Parliament, make a mockery of it. George, it seems, is King!
I think Gonzales is the perfect starting point. The left needs to make a concerted, aggressive effort to really nail Gonzales. The more that is turned up about him, the more we will find out about how his doings are related to Bush and Cheney. I think if Gonzales is nailed and nailed thoroughly, the rest of the administration could come down easily, like the house of cards it is. Or shouldn't that be "house of 'tards"?

Anyway, Kucinich may be jumping the gun JUST a bit. Let's see what happens during the next couple of weeks or the next month with Gonzales, and let's see if any other state legislatures besides Vermont's have the guts to approve resolutions demanding that Congress begin impeachment proceedings. If a few more states passed similar resolutions, such actions would become more than merely symbolic, and would become indicative of a growing national trend.

Kvatch, would California's state legislature approve of such a thing? Would Ahnold have to approve it before it got sent to Congress? I know that in Oregon, there might be a genuine chance for such a resolution to pass, given that the state House, Senate and governorship are all in Democrats' hands. Similar impeachment resolutions have been debated in Washington state, Wisconsin, and New Mexico.

I think we all need to write letters to our state legislators and ask them to please support any efforts of Congress to impeach Bush and Cheney. We should also be sending e-mails to the DNC, to moveon.org and to anyone else who might pay attention. Let's roll!
Praguetwin... Oh I think that most of us know. We're just hopeful that they'll collectively grow a pair.

I think we all know that's never going to happen. But by all means, go ahead and keep on voting for them.
... we need to impeach Bush&Cheney for the simple reason to send a message to future Presidents that we will not tolerate our Constitution being violated.


I'd go with the Menace's tactics If Only because I think that'd highlight a few criminal acts which would make NOT impeaching teh Shrub all but impossible.
BTW, Wiccans are NOT acceptable 'cordin' to the Dept of Veterans Affairs. Even us atheists get a symbol if'n we want it though! Just not "witches".

Shake's Sister and yours truly both got our hackles up over this one last summer and, 'sfar as I can tell, ain't naught changed as of yet.
Daniel... Though I would really love to submit Bush to something like the 'Prime Minister's Question Time', having a republic ours does have at least one advantage: Our 'vote of no confidence' doesn't bring the government down, but it also makes it very hard to get to that point.

Snave... I think that the California Assembly probably would, but then once it's on The Governator's desk, it's a crap shoot. Would he sign it to appease the moderates--he's canny and has done this on many occasions--or would he veto? Hard to say.
But by all means, go ahead and keep on voting for them.

Ouch, PT! Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Michael... What do atheists get for their markers? I'm with you in that it seems like a pretty blatant form of discrimination.
A28.ORG has declared next Saturday to be the beginning of Impeachment Summer. To participate, "Anybody can start an A28 action. It can be as small as writing IMPEACH on the sidewalk in chalk or as large as organizing 2,000 people on a beach to make a human mural. Be creative! Some of the ways that people are talking about spelling it out include: signs, gigantic lasers, toy soldiers, stencils, LED throwies, freewayblogging, banner drops, light projections, t-shirts, rocks, skydivers, skywriters, peaches, christmas lights, flags and balloons. Join the discussion about creative ways to spell it out on A28's new ImpeachSpace network."

Sounds like something to consider.
Sadly, Kvatch, I believe your argument rings true. They have to be Impeached at the same time, but I don't believe that Congress has the stomach for such a bold act.

Ultimately, Bush, Cheney, Rove, and company, should be brought before the International Court of Justice for Crimes against Humanity.

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